Interview with Peter Mendelsund, Knopf

CHRIS TOBIAS: Peter, let's get this out of the way, so we can talk about you. What's it like working with Chip Kidd? Are you green with envy of his god-like status in the book cover design world?
PETER MENDELSUND: Chip who?

CT: Good, that's out of the way. That question was simply a way to drive all those Googling "Chip Kidd" to my site. Sorry I had to use you that way, Peter.

Now, tell me anything you want about your background, your training, and your first design job.

PM:The short answer is: I don't have any design training, and the job I'm currently working in at Knopf is the first paying gig I ever had as a designer.

The longer story is: The arts always played a large role in my family- my father was an architect turned sculptor, and my sister was a painter. I always thought I was the blind one in the family- We'd go to museums together (incidentally, my mother now leads tours at the Metropolitan Museum) and I'd wonder what all the fuss was about. I think my dad considered me a lost-cause in the visual-department as well, cause he shackled me to the piano when I was five and I've been playing ever since. I went to Columbia U. and was a Philosophy major, though I spent most of my time playing the piano. After College, I got my graduate degrees in classical music, then performed, taught, and wrote music for a spell. When my first daughter was born, it became clear that a certain someone needed more income....and after some soul-searching about what it was I enjoyed doing other than music (reading, making stuff), I taught myself Quark etc., volunteered to design some CD covers for a NY record label where I'd made some recordings, and six months after that, I showed up with "a book" at John Gall's door, met Carol and Chip (ok, I had no idea who any of these people were, which helped A TON). Following week, I was working here; first at Vintage, eight months after that, Knopf hardcovers. Improbably, the entire process from Music to Design took less than a year. I count my lucky stars that John and Carol were up for a gamble.

CT:What was it specifically that made them hire you?
PM:I still have no idea. Someone must have been pumping narcotics into the water fountains at Randomhouse the day I came in.

CT:Did you ever come to the point where you said to yourself, "Hey, I'm working with some of the most celebrated legends in publishing—pinch me."?

PM: Truthfully, from the moment John G. called me to tell me I had the job at Vintage. I think, to my credit, not knowing anything about design, I appreciated a good thing immediately. Still do.

CT: I look at the books you have designed and I am sick with envy. They really are beautiful. The first that caught my eye was Mao. I have been hunting down your work ever since. Tell me about one of your recent covers, The Ruins. It happens to be one of my favorites.

PM: Thanks! Well...The Ruins was one of those jackets that could have turned out quite differently. I'm very proud of the final product, but also have a twinge of regret for what might have been; I've been a fan of the illustrator James Jean's work for ages (jamesjean.com), and, if anyone can do killer vines, it's James Jean. I had him do a sketch for the book which turned out brilliantly—It was the coolest comp ever. As it happens (often) the editor wanted something different, in this case, she asked for something "a bit more like Henri Rousseau"(we actually hear things like this?!). Carol (Carson) was saying all along that I should look at some old botanical books, so finally I did- Collaged a bit, beat the hell out of the type (made it large for that "big-book" appeal) et voila!

CT:Do you have anyone or anything that has had the most influence on your design work?
PM: I suppose the constructivists are a huge influence. Rodchenko, Rozanova, El Lissitsky, etc. They just utilized type and image ingeniously, playfully. and Alvin Lustig, who I was just mentioning to you. I'm a big fan of the illustrative, abstract book jacket, of which he was the undisputed master. In terms of the living, breathing designers, I guess Jaime Keenan, John Gray and John Gall would be my favorite designers to emulate. The three J's.

CT: I notice many of your covers tend to include very geometric elements or compositions. Is that a conscious decision?

PM: It was a conscious choice on the Dostoyevsky covers I did for Vintage (which are sort of little Malevich hommages). And certainly on Walter Abish's memoir Double Vision. I definitely gravitate towards using illustration, in general, more than photography in book jackets; and the more abstract the better. I think this approach leaves more to the reader's imagination. It's easier to be evocative without being literal. Though, upon reflection, those geometric jackets were to some extent influenced by the fact that they were all designed in Quark, which, really because of the limitations of the software, one finds oneself designing with the most available tools—boxes, circles, in flat colors or simple blends on top of art. It's more tempting in that environment to simply place a shape on top of art. In PhotoShop, or InDesign, of course, because of the ease of blending layers, compositions tend to be denser, shapes more amorphous, and the final result, well, more photographic. We need software updates here at Knopf.

CT: What is the ratio of the work you do between fiction and non-fiction?
PM: It's about 50/50.

CT: Do you have a preference?
PM:They are both challenging and rewarding in their own ways. For some reason (and I know this is just a personal proclivity) with fiction, I find myself trying to design in a more evocative fashion, setting a mood etc., whereas with nonfiction i find myself going for the big, clever concept more (and usually failing). Again, just a habit.

CT: Talk a little bit about your work style. Do you start with a pencil and paper, or do you go straight to the mouse?
PM:Every project is completely different. Today for instance, I just pencil sketched one project, (i just had a clear vision of it). On another, I futzed around on my computer till something emerged. There's one project I'm working on now where the process seems to be: stare at the ceiling, cruise the web till i get carpal tunnel syndrome, bother every coworker I can find, bang my forehead on my monitor, then walk home dejectedly.
CT: Well, I'm glad I'm not alone—I mean the banging my head and going home dejectedly part.

CT: On your personal web site I like that you have posted some rejected designs that you preferred as opposed to what was chosen by the publisher. How often do you go home frustrated?
PM:If I told you, you'd be depressed. The big battle in book design is keeping your chin up. I try, but often fail, to have the twentieth comp be my best. Truth is though, eventually everyone can be worn down.

CT: What is a typical timeframe to get a cover from assignment to approval?
PM: It really depends. On average, a couple weeks? I work pretty quickly, which means I get rewarded with being given ungainly, problematic jackets, books late to the list, etc. I was given something to design last week that was already late for the mechanical-stage when it was handed to me. so, in that case, one day.

CT: How often do you bring (or does an editor bring) an author into the process? I know that designers tend to want to keep them at arms length when it comes to specific input for the cover's direction.
PM: Some authors want to art-direct everything; some (wisely!) leave everything to us. Normally, when an author demands total involvement, the results are disastrous (not naming names here). But there are rare exceptions: I had a blast working with Nina Marie Martinez on ¡Caramba!,and with David Leavitt on the hardcover of The Body of Jonah Boyd. Also working with Adam Gopnik on his new book was great (he was literally in my office working on it) and it turned out pretty well, despite some egregious production disasters. I've found that editors will never buffer you from an author who wants to get their hands dirty on the jacket.

CT: Which of your covers is your favorite?
PM: I guess my favorite is Double Vision by Walter Abish. This was a last minute substitute for a jacket that was rejected days before it was due to production. I was completely in the "I give up" stage. I basically resignedly threw up some black circles and type, and magically it all worked well. It was all done so fast that i couldn't get neurotic about it.

CT: Do you ever end up with a finished product that you don't want your name attached to?
PM: Almost every day. One of the things that I find misunderstood about cover design on "the outside" is that so much of what happens is determined editorially. You try your best, but at the end of the day, most things are not going to turn out the way you liked. That's why it behooves one to do a high volume of work. The law of averages suggests that you'll end up with something to be proud of amongst the dreck at the end of the day.

CT: What are some of the most disappointing trends you see in book covers and
jackets today?
PM: Well, our editors REALLY LOVE OLD PAPER. I AM REALLY SICK OF OLD PAPER. A lot of our books (Knopf is a very literary imprint) rely on nostalgia as a selling point, so we get asked to design in a way that evokes the past- the result being a lot of OLD PAPER behind our designs. I just worked on a freelance job where the jacket was this clean, pristine, white thing, then, it shows up on the shelves with ALL THIS OLD PAPER behind it. I had no idea this was going to be done. Anyway, you get the point. In the words of Roberto Duran, "no mas." I'm sick unto death of it. In terms of current trends- I guess I'd like to see more illustration that demonstrates good draftmanship on the part of the illustrators- There's a lot of this naive-school, something-that-a-teen-would-doodle-in-their-algebra-book type illustration out there. It's all over books and music. Show us you can draw! (not that I can).

CT: What do you want people to know most about you that I haven't asked?
PM: "What's it like working with Chip Kidd?" People need to know about this guy- I think he's going to be huge!

CT: Thanks so much, Peter. Can I have your autograph?
PM: Only if I get yours. And thank you! Again, if you're in the city, please drop in!

Comments

[dan pitts]

Thanks for the interview, as a beginning book designer interviews are some of the best things to learn from. I think I'll come back to it and read the part about the law of averages and doing a lot of covers so you get some you really like. Every time the publisher picks "the other one" I'll remind myself of that and think it even happens to Peter Mendelsund.
Thanks!

[John Salisbury]

Quite a wonderful interview you have given here. Thank you so very much.

[CJ Plourde]

Great Interview. I love hearing stories like this because there are so many companies out there that INSIST on a degree, etc., I taught myself pretty much everything I know, then years later I went to school, but wasn't really learning much about design, design theory, etc., I felt I was pay 800$ for classes in Photoshop and Illustrator, et.al, and I already knew how to work with those applications. There is a Photography school in Rockport, Maine, where I lived as a teenager, and they have these great summer courses where they import foreigners, designers, illustrators, etc., Ive always wanted to take some of those courses, but Ive never been able to juggle a schedule.

I wanted to thank you for taking time to show us the covers. I'm also really excited because I was just informed by Knopf that I won one of the poetry broadside competitions and I opted pick from several collections and I picked this one. I was tempted to take the Murakami collection but I just started reading my first Murakami title, the Wind-Up Bird Chronicle, and I don't know if it's just me, and my personal interests but I haven't been able to get beyond the first 150 pages. My Japanese friend, who never ever ever reads, is like in love with this author and I've watched him consume several titles in a relatively short time—for a guy who NEVER reads!

In any case, my feeling about Murakami, if I can share this, is that he doesn't handle the psychic phenomena well. He treats it, and the readers, well, as though we're all imbeciles. Perhaps this is because of my personal psychic abilities, but I'm no Edgar Cayce. Murakami takes these powerful ideas and then just throws them at us, sort of like handing a bird a crumb, enticing the reader. But the fact is that it comes off as arrogance, like a name-dropper at a party..they're annoying, right?

Maybe if I sit down and just finish it off in an afternoon, in a quiet place, in a large overstuffed chair. Maybe if I'm destined NOT to enjoy Murakami, or maybe it's this book that isn't working for me..In any case, I will finish the book, simply because I would be greatly troubled for months if I didn't know >exactly>how it ends!

Thanks for the wonder pages!